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Diatonic Harmonica Tunings - An update

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barbequebob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote barbequebob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Diatonic Harmonica Tunings - An update
    Posted: November 09 2009 at 5:05pm
Here is an updated/corrected list of diatonic harmonica tunings that now includes the Hohner Marine Band Crossover and the Suzuki Manji:
 
7 Limit Just Intonation
 
BLOW 0 -14 2+ 0 -14 2+ 0 -14 2+ 0
HOLE# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DRAW 4+ 2+ -12 4+ -29 6+ -12 4+ -29 6+
 
Used on all Hohner diatonics (except for the Golden Melody and Solo tuned harps, which are tuned to Equal Temperament) until 1985, Hering 1923 Vintage Harp, and the just tuned version of the Suzuki Fabulous.
 
19 Limit Just Intonation
 
BLOW 0 -14 2+ 0 -14 2+ 0 -14 2+ 0
HOLE# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DRAW 4+ 2+ -12 4+ 1.5+ 6+ -12 4+ 1.5+ 6+
 
Used on Marine Bands (1985-1992)/pre-1990 Old Standby's/Sp20's (1985-1992)/Pro Harp (pre-MS series)/pre-MS series Blues Harps, wood combed version of the Hering Master Blues, and the Bends Juke.
 
Hohner Comprimise Tunings for the Marine Band/Special20/Marine Band Deluxe since 1992
 
BLOW 0 -12 1+ 0 -12 1+ 0 -12 1+ 0
HOLE# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DRAW 2+ 1+ -11 2+ -12 3+ -11 2+ -12 3+
 
Hohner Comprimise Tunings for the MS series since 1992
 
BLOW 0 -10 1+ 0 -10 1+ 0 -10 1+ 0
HOLE# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DRAW 2+ 1+ -9 2+ 3+ 3+ -9 2+ 3+ 3+
 
Includes since 1992, MS Blues Harp, MS Meisterklasse, Big River, Cross harp, Pro Harp, MS Marine Band (discontinued and only issued in Europe), Martin, Tiffany, MS Bob Dylan, MS Steven Tyler models.
 
Seydel Comprimise Tuning since 2007
 
BLOW 0 -14 2+ 0 -14 2+ 0 -14 2+ 0
HOLE# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DRAW 4+ 2+ -12 4+ -2 6+ -12 4+ -2 6+
 
Suzuki Manji Tuning
 
BLOW 0 -5 0 0 -5 0 0 -5 0 0
HOLE# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DRAW 0 0 -5 0 0 0 -5 0 0 0
 
Marine Band Crossover Tuning
 
BLOW 0 -5 1+ 0 -5 1+ 0 -5 1+ 0
HOLE# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
DRAW 8+ 4+ 0 1+ 2+ 1+ 0 1+ 2+ 1+
 
Please read an excerpt from a posting Steve Baker placed on Harp-L on this tuning:
 
0=443Hz w. minimal air pressure, all deviations are in cents, 1Hz =  
approx. 4 cents on most tuners
 
Blow reed plate:
Root notes (1, 4, 7 & 10) tuned to 0
Thirds (2, 5 & 8) minus 5 cents
Fifths (3, 6 & 9) + 1 cent
 
Draw reed plate:
1-draw is very difficult to measure accurately. With absolutely  
minimal air pressure maybe +8 cents, more in low keys. Like that it  
will sound right with normal air pressure. It's essential that it  
sounds good when played together with 2-draw and as an octave  
interval with 4-draw.
2-draw + 4-6 cents depending on the key, at normal air pressure it  
should sound at the same pitch as 3-blow
3- & 7-draw tuned to 0
4- & 8-draw 1 cent higher than 2-draw (i.e. + 5-7 cents)
5- & 9-draw + 2 cents (this will mean the 7th chord sounds rough, but  
sounds better as a single note. You can even tune it a little higher  
if you prefer that sound)
6- & 10-draw 1 cent higher than 4-draw (i.e. + 6-8 cents)
 
It's highly recommended to check that all perfect intervals (octaves,  
fifths and fourths) sound without interference beats. This is what  
piano tuners do too. You'll find it's damnably difficult to obtain  
constant readings from your tuner and I can only recommend playing  
very softly indeed and holding the note for a long time so you get a  
fairly clear note value. I use a Korg MT-1200 tuner with a built-in  
spread which tunes the upper octaves slightly sharper (as do piano  
tuners) and use the smallest spread the machine offers. It's hard to  
work to this degree of accuracy with a tuner which only shows Hz values.
 
Hope this will be of assistance,
 
Steve Baker
www.stevebaker.de
www.bluesculture.com
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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ZackP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ZackP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2009 at 6:42pm
This is very cool Bob.
www.zackpomerleau.com
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a1harps View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote a1harps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2009 at 9:28pm
 Much appreciated Bob!

 Steve Baker states the hertz setting on the tuner for the cross over.....I am curious about where the tuner should be set for the rest of these harps and tunings?

 -Frank.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Big Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2009 at 10:43pm
This is great Bob.  I've been really curious about the Manji and I was wondering about the tuning. Thank you.
  
Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 1/2fast-harp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2009 at 11:10pm
invaluable info BBQ,, thank you for taking all that trouble to lay it out..
I can't Duet without my Delta frost, life would Bb
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Post Options Post Options   Quote barbequebob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2009 at 9:09am
Most harmonicas are tuned out of the factory to A442 or A443 because in real playing breath, you're gonna make the pitch flatter, especially when played hard, and by doing this, it will never play below A440. If any harp is tuned to A440, somebody who plays too hard will wind up playin g at A437, which would wind up being something like 40-60 cents flat against A440, which is really out. According to Brad Harrison, who until he had his own harmonica manufacturing company, was one of the best customizers in the business, said Howard Levy was the only guy who could have a harp tuned to A440 and actually be played in real A440, and 98% of harp players on the planet don't play with a soft enough breath force to manage that consistently.
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jpmcbride Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2009 at 9:47am
Just a couple suggestions for those who might be new to tuning their harps.
 
If you are not sure what reference frequency your brand of harp is tuned to, just play set the reference frequency on your tuner to 442hz and see if most of the notes come out right. If 442 is not right, try 443hz.
 
As said previously, do not blow too hard when tuning.
 
This is my experience, ymmv...  
I tune individual reeds as required then check the octaves for beating. I often find that I tune the notes dead-on individually but they still beat when played together. Conclusion - my playing technique is causing one or the other of the notes to be slightly flat and thus the beating. Step one is to concentrate more on my playing technique, usually this means play softer. If you play hard, different notes will react differently. For example if you draw hard on the 1-4 octave, the 1 draw will probably flatten more than the 1 draw and you will get beating. Step two, once the playing technique has been examined, is to slightly adjust the tuning to eliminate the beating. This is usually a VERY slight tuning change. You would be surprised how little of a difference in frequency can cause beating that you can hear.
 
One more thing ...
Harmonica tuning requires real patience. Tuners often jump around (I assume due to all the overtones present in a harmonica note) and you have to play long soft notes and patiently watch the tuner. Also, sometimes notes seem to majically change their tuning when you screw down the reed plates and put the covers back on! Its an iterative and sometimes time consuming process.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote barbequebob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2009 at 12:43pm

Herre are some important things to remember if you are new to tuning:

  • To get the tuning properly done, one of the first things that has to be done is to make sure that both cover plates are back on before you attempt to check the tuning because breath and moisture do have an effect on the reed and the way it responds
  • Always use the lightest breath force that you can physically manage because the harder you play (and doesn't take very much at all), the more the pitch drops, the lower the accuracy rate is going to be
  • When tuning equal temperament you will largely be tuning in equal octaves. However, with Just Intonation, you not only have to do that, but you also need to hear the note in question with the other two notes of the chord as well so that when that area is in tune, the entire chord stops beating and sound perfectly smooth without a beating
  • The reason you use a light breath force is because it is that it is considerably more accurate and when it is right with a soft breath, it should be right when played harder. However, this does not work the other way around.

Harmonica reeds give off many more overtones than any other instrument outside of a piano, and many of them tend to be odd numbered, which tends to sound harsh to the human ear and that's why equal temperament tuning on chords will sound especially rough on harmonicas.

JP is spot on when he mentions patience is needed here.
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kingley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2009 at 1:07pm
Thank you for taking the time to make up these charts Bob.
They are a truly invaluable source for those among us who work on their own harps.
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